My personal "bi" problem

Way back in the 1980s when I was just another closeted frat boy in college, there was a thing known as fashionable bisexuality, popularized by fey pop stars and novels from Brett Easton Ellis and Michael Chabon. In my experience, what bisexuality boiled down to was this: You would let me blow you, but you wouldn't do anything in return. And then you would go back to your girlfriend and making fag jokes.

Unsurprisingly, with a couple of decades as an out gay man under my belt, I have some lingering issues about bisexuality.

There's an interesting discussion going on over at Shakesville about biphobia -- in this poster's case, biphobia from a lesbian perspective (h/t to Andrew Sullivan). Obviously, my perspective is a lot less lesbian -- but otherwise it's pretty similar. I've been through a lot of guys who told me they were bisexual -- I fell in love with some of them -- but almost all of them ended up in one of two ways: Either they ended up "going back" to women and getting married, or they came out as gay because they only called themselves bisexual so people wouldn't think they were total fags.

I should be very clear  before anyone comes to burn down my house -- in a world of billions of people in a vast web sexual attractions and orientations, I don't doubt the existence of actual, living, breathing bisexuals. But like Sarah in Chicago at Shakesville, I can't shake some of the things that put me off about bisexuality. Is someone who is attracted to the same sex but in a hetero-normative, mixed-gender relationship really subject to the same level of discrimination as those of us who are gay, lesbian and transgender? I'm fully aware that my personal experience is a limited sample from which to draw broad conclusions, but with one exception -- a bisexual activist at a GLBT health conference I once attended -- every bisexual identified guy I've had direct interaction with has been romantically involved with women.

I feel bad in a way, because I really do want to be an all-inclusive kind of guy. And, since I'm a small-L libertarian, as far as I'm concerned everyone should be free and happy to bone or be boned by whichever gender they want. But there's a part of me that's always thinking that the bisexuals are getting the joys of homo transgression while reaping the benefits of hetero assimilation.

Is it just me?

Comments

[Martin]

Pender: see the article by Marcus C. Tye titled "Bye-bye Bi? Bailey, Biphobia, and Girlie-Men" in Shira Tarrant, ed., _Men Speak Out: views on gender, sex, and power_ (Routledge, 2008). Especially page 82. I quote:

--
But what's most interesting about the study, and what wasn't reported at all in any mainstream press, is that all three groups in the study--gay, straight, or bi--showed more arousal to any of the porn than they did to neutral stimuli.

The media misreported that bisexual men expressed "exclusively" gay or straight arousal, meaning they got aroused by depictions of men or women, but not both. But what Rieger, Chivers, and Bailey actually found an dreported in their study was that the bi men responded *like* straight or gay men: Straight guys actually got somewhat hard at the gay porn, gay guys got somewhat hard at the straight porn. [...]

The authors could have concluded from their data that the bi-identified men were just being honest about experiencing some bisexual arousal, which, based on their research, is evidently almost universal in men. Instead they concluded that male bisexual identity isn't consistent with the data, that there are really just two teams, like most people continue to believe. [...]

The media headlines could have--and *should* have--read that 96 to 98 percent of guys who identify as heterosexual are in fact bisexual to a statistically significant degree, because if you get down to it and show them gay porn and check out their penises, you're going to find that they aren't quite so 100 percent straight as they say. [...] Most gay men openly acknowledge an occasional heterosexual experience, so I think it's more interesting to consider the unacknowledged same-sex sexual potential of the 96 to 98 percent of guys who identify as heterosexual.

So, why didn't the Times hit on this? Why not title the article "*Bi* or Lying?" [...] I think the answer is because the myth of the straight male is integral to our culture's conceptualization of masculinity. Acknowledging the truth is too threatening--both for men and women. Furthermore, keeping the myth alive is essential to social conservatives' goal of keeping gender and sexuality in check. This is nothing if not a power issue.
--

That's Marcus Tye's position, with which I agree. And I would add to various comments, hello...what about falling in love? Only Christian Gartrip has mentioned that so far, speaking of men who fall in love with men. It is likewise *entirely* possible for a bisexual man to be more somewhat sexually attracted to men yet still tend to fall in love more often with women. And if he's like that, which sex would you rather him get into a long-term relationship with?

[Ade]

Perhaps gay men are bisexuals in denial. Accepting bisexuality means living with tension between conflicting desires, identities, roles. Much easier to avoid that tension and deny ever being attracted to someone who isn't the gender you normally identify as being attracted to. I've lived with understanding I'm bi for 30 years. When I was younger I came out as gay, but my attraction to women never went away. I've had relationships with both genders, and with supposedly straight and gay members of both genders. Maybe some gay hostility towards bisexuals is because some gay people still feel some attraction to the opposite sex but don't feel comfortable with it?

As for that study which found that bisexuals were either straight or gay - what they found was that at any one time people were attracted one way or the other. Well sometimes I'm very attracted to one gender and then sometimes I'm very attracted to the other. Doesn't mean I'm not really bi.

[T]

"But there's a part of me that's always thinking that the bisexuals are getting the joys of homo transgression while reaping the benefits of hetero assimilation."

Why wouldn't you think that which is in any number of cases self-evidently true?

Bisexual men didn't create the world in which your synopsis may apply. Holding this state of affairs against any bisexual individual seems small and mean, after being unjustifiable.

You seem to hold this state of affairs against an entire class comprised almost entirely of people you have never met. Aren't you applying your attention and energy precisely where the expenditure will impede rather than facilitate your own growth or contentment? Is there any chance whatsoever that your simmering resentment will lead to some improvement?

What would the improvement be? Would bisexuals loose one or the other or both of the benefits this moment in history happens to afford them? In what way would this be a benefit to anyone?

I'm having trouble finding anything but some sort of Shadenfreudishness in your chagrin at someone else's relative good fortune.

Is there any aspect of this sentiment of yours that doesn't tend toward destructiveness for you, emotionally and psychologicaly, and destructiveness socially (for want of a better term) for those whose little slice of good fortune you resent?

Please, that was not a rhetorical question. I would like to understand.

[Steven]

Comment and question as well.
I am a gay man who has been in a monogamous relationship with a bisexual man for 9 years. I previously may have been skeptical of true bisexual exhistance before I met my partner.

After spending years together in a relationship with lots of communication, honesty and observations, I can 100% attest that bisexuality can be someone's true orientation and not a transitional phase toward gay or issue of self acceptance.

I fully cherish and enjoy our partnership yet I will admit it can be challenging at times. I accept and love him for who he is but I occasionally face feelings of insecurity and doubt.

I would love to find a support group or information about other people in a similar situation as myself. There are plenty of groups and information sites for bisexual men/women, mixed orientation marriages and support for straight spouses yet very little information on the subject of a same sex spouse with bisexual partner. Thanks in advance.

[bluedipper]

My problem with bisexuality has more to do with gender than anything else i.e only male bisexuality unnerves me because it mixes something I like (male homosexuality) with something I don't (male heterosexuality) I suppose for me, male heterosexuality is tolerable insofar as I can take refuge from it. Bisexuality, even when the desire for both genders aren't acted upon simultaneously, undermines this because the desire itself is still within the person. That alone is enough for me to find it unappealing - possibly liking the person, but not their sexual orientation. A related issue that I dislike is the fact that all the "transcending gender" rhetoric seems to be a staple of the bisexual manifesto. But it clearly is not a position held by all bisexuals as evinced by the fact that many certainly have a litany of gender based expectations/roles. So I don't expect that any of these bisexuals should have any beef with the fact that for most of the population, including gay people, gender is truly NOT incidental and carries significance on a symbolic level, such that they may come to the table with an established double standard on the basis of gender that they have no qualms about, but which the bisexual person may have.

[xx xx]

Regarding the "study" that was misrepresented in the press as "finding" that there are not "truly" bisexual men:

In that study they observed that around 15% (I forget the number) of heterosexual-identified people had sexual responses to BOTH the material that the researchers thought was "gay" and the material the researchers thought was "straight". (Never mind that the material in both categories, and even the existence of any such supposedly exclusive categories, is suspect, poorly explained, and probably poorly executed in the study.) Now, the researchers totally ignored this outcome -- they didn't question whether these straight people were "really" bisexual. Nope. Instead, they used it as a reference point for how heterosexuals respond. In other words, they "believed" the straight people were straight, and used their responses, and the self-identified gay people's responses, as benchmarks. The self identified bisexuals were then compared to how the researchers observed that self-identified-heterosexuals and self-identified-gays respond. Clever. Their finding was that the bi-identified men responded similarly to the gay-identified men.

It's been some time since I read it, so I can't quote the percentages of people, but I thought it was a fascinating little blip in the study.

Actually, it may have been that the gay-identified folks also have a decent percentage who responded to "both". (Both is in quotes because I don't believe that their method of determining is valid.)

I guess I should go read it again.

There was also a decent percentage who responded to neither, which the researchers also seem to pretty much ignore.

[mykill]

...so the formatting sucks,
copy and paste, it's worth reading:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Bailey/
Bisexuality/Bisexuality-NYT%207-05-05.html#Intro

[mykill]

I see the article the NY Times ran a few years ago reared its ugly head way up there from Pender @ March 01, 2:57. This is worth reading so you can be aware of who is shaping your opinions:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Bailey/Bisexuality/Bisexuality-NYT%207-05-05.html#Intro

[Marc]

I've heard many arguments from men about bisexuality; the problem is I have never actually seen it to be true. I've had my share of so-called bisexual men in my time, but none of them have ever convinced me that their sexuality didn't fall more on the homo side. They would assure me about "how I love my wife/girlfriend," but loving someone isnt the same as being in love with them, or the feeling you get when being intimate with them. The simple act of sex with an opposite sex person doesnt make you bisexual - a guy could simply think about Brad PItt while fuckign his wife, and a woman could think of Angelia Jolie.

I also went through my "bisexual" period, but I realized i wasn't being honest to myself or to the woman I was with. For those of you on here who claim to be bisexual, there is nothing that says you can't or shouldn't continue such a relationship. And maybe you are the exceptions to the rule I never find.

A straight guy pointed out to me once, "I never think about whether I am straight or not; I just know." In my case, I spent far too many hours trying to convince myself (and my almost wife) that I wasn't gay because of the social pressures and stigmas that come along with it. Bisexuality was just one way to make that admittance a little less painful.

[paul thomson]

what a load of elitist horse hocky. the vast majority of men are hard-wired to be flagrantly promiscuous. we can't help it. if we want to be in a commited relationship where monogamy is desired by our partner, the best we can do is resist our many temptations.
no individual, regardless of orientation, can know what goes on inside someone elses head. as a truly bi-sexual man, rapidly approaching the status of elderly, i can tell you that i've never felt privileged over having two orientations. on the contrary, having two sexual creatures inside my skull has largely been NO FUN. ps. i've always been fully reciprocal with ALL my intimate partners.

[the rebus]

Many of these comments have little to do with sexual orientation, and more to do with envy and jealousy.

[the rebus]

Many of these comments have little to do with sexual orientation, and more to do with envy and jealousy.

[the rebus]

Many of these comments have little to do with sexual orientation, and more to do with envy and jealousy.

[KSG]

Wow. Just throw around the stereotypes, and despite that, a big thanks to Pender et al who did their best to set the record straight. Err, so to speak.

I've got to say, I really hate the "you're just indecisive" rbit. I get it from straight men, gay men, straight women, and gay women. Oh, joy! Y'know, maybe that worked as an argument-reply when I was eighteen and baffled as to there being an actual *label* for someone who could, and did, fall in love with members of both genders at different times. But I'm a long way from there, and I know damn well I'm not indecisive. I know exactly what I am: I'm someone who can, and has, fallen in love with women, and can, and has, fallen in love with men. What of it?

Years ago (when I was struggling with the insecure notion that I was deep-down just 'indecisive'), a friend told me, "I have the best sex with men, but when it comes to relationships, it's always a disaster. And I have the closest emotional relationships with women, but the sex just doesn't do anything for me." He figured that slated him in the 'bisexual' category and yet still self-defined himself as gay, because when push came to shove, he wanted hawt!smex more, and was willing to keep at it until he found a guy that he *could* have a good relationship with, too.

What does that make my friend? Gay but in the closet about the fact that he felt, emotionally, more able to connect with his female friends? Or does that make him bi, as he allowed he might be, or does that make him gay because that's what he called himself?

Hell, for that matter, I've had people tell me that I must be straight now for being with a guy, but that I was lesbian only when I was with a woman. If you argue bisexuality is a myth and people are one sexuality or the other *based on who they're fucking* then don't stop there. What am I when I'm not fucking anyone? Nonsexual? What am I when I'm still a virgin? Presexual? And does that mean you're nonsexual at work and while sleeping, but gay or straight for the hour or so you're having sex? Does this include when you're just making out, or must actual full-on nekkidness occur? It's ridiculous.

When someone gets defensive about my sexuality -- as though they have any say in the matter, what fools -- it's really their problem, not mine. If I'm not fucking you personally, then you can bitch all you like about "someone going back to the other side" but if I've fallen in love with someone and it's not you, then it's not you. Get over it.

I can't help but wonder at the underlying message. Why is it that a sub-culture clamoring so loudly for marriage rights have so many members perfectly willing to condemn a person for falling in love with "the wrong type of person"? Am I the only person who sees that as hypocritical?

And, for the record, when it comes to 99% of the population now that I'm in a committed relationship, my attitude is: yeah, so I'm bisexual. I still don't find you attractive.

[jon]

I'll start by stating that I am a straight white male. So my perspective may be completely off.
First, we don't know for a FACT if homosexuality is purely genetic, purely environment, or both. I don't know an adult who has any memories before they were five that are any more than a snapshot. No one can say at this point whether you are born gay, turned into gay by events in your early childhood, or you are essentially on the fence and have an incident that pushes you over the fence one way or the other.
Second, the study cited above in the New York Times article, only studied 33 bisexual men. Wile this was a similar number to the study of women, I still have troubles with the way they selected the study in comparison to the women. In the male study they selected men who read an alternative magazine. In the study on women, they studied women who were at a gay pride parade. In one study they had people who were comfortable enough with their sexuality, no matter how they described it, to be out in public. For the men, no matter how accepting they are of other lifestyles, these were men whom we don't know how comfortable they are with their sexual orientation. These were men selected from an ad in a newspaper, for all we know, the "bisexual" men in the study were gay men who couldn't admit to themselves that they were gay, because of the negative connotations that are attached to life in straight male culture.
Finally, I believe those that identify as bisexual do suffer from more discrimination than do homosexuals. This is from my personal experience. Straight men as a general rule are not accepting of effeminate men. Women look on men who are sensitive and interested in them as friends or surrogate brothers. Gay men as we have seen from the comments above look on bisexual men in the kindest sense as men who transitioning from heterosexuality to homosexuality, in a meaner sense as closet cases or worse men who are in complete denial as to who they really are.
I think that a community that has been so maligned and persecuted over the years would be more accepting of people who are different.

[BostonDiva]

"Think outside your own little box."

Cute, Brendon Ross! Cute!!!

[BostonDiva]

One of the most perspicacious queens I've ever met made the most on-point comment I've ever heard about bisexuality in men: Bi now; gay later.

Sexuality is fluid, in every respect. But American men definitely have a difficult time admitting their attraction to other men.

[Brendan Ross]

"Blech. Bisexuals? Please. Self-described bisexuals are just gay guys scared to admit it, not unlike grown men still tied to mommy's apron strings. Let it go, boys! The dick is what you need! I can get a hard on and fuck a girl if I wanted to, but that doesn't make me bi... it makes me dishonest."

Not dishonest, but your statement is ignorant.

What if (using your crude terminology) a guy likes a dick in bed, but his eyes find women much hotter than men? Is that a repressed homosexual? Doubtful, because even a repressed homosexual has a basic attraction to men that he needs to repress. These folks who are attracted to dicks in the bed and women by their eyes (like the johns of the trans-hookers described in Dan Savage's advice noted above) can really only be described as bisexual. A gay boy doesn't want a chick with a dick .. he wants the six pack abs, the muscles, the shouders, the angular face, the energy and power and so forth. The guy who is attracted to the chick with a dick is a bisexual, not a gay man in denial.

You need to learn to think outside your own little box.

[pippa]

The comments alone here tell the story. Before I met my husband, I probably would have identified myself as lesbian. I dated only women. I was attracted to only women. I'm still attracted to women far more than men. But some people fall in love with a person's soul and not what's between their legs.

As a bisexual, you are rejected by both gay and straight folks. Either you must be cheating on your partner to "get what you're missing" or you were straight or gay all along, as proved by your relationship.

There always has to be one group lower than the group that feels persecuted, as the commenter who would be "fine" with removing the "B" from LGBT. If I were to post the same, but remove the L or the G, that same poster would be in an uproar. If we want to go with the stereotypes to judge people, then all gay men must be promiscuous leather-wearing old men with boy toys, right? All lesbians are flannel-wearing butches who work in construction? Until we realize that we are subscribing to the same prejudices as the folks we are allegedly fighting against have assigned us, we aren't going to get anywhere at all.

[MartinHicks]

Blech. Bisexuals? Please. Self-described bisexuals are just gay guys scared to admit it, not unlike grown men still tied to mommy's apron strings. Let it go, boys! The dick is what you need! I can get a hard on and fuck a girl if I wanted to, but that doesn't make me bi... it makes me dishonest.

As for "bi" women. Yeah, well, I've never understand anything they do. I've always been of the opinion that sex needs at least one dick in the mix. Two, three or more are all the better, but at minimum, AT LEAST one stick. Bi women are probably just scarred a bit from having had one a little too soon as a teenager, so on occasion they feel the need to turn to another woman for some sexual/phychic palette cleansing, so to speak. So where does that put lesbians? We won't go there. I'm too much of a gentleman to even start on THAT topic.

[Brendan Ross]

My guess, Dawn, is that he would cite Bailey's study and simply say that women have more attractional fluidity than men do, and that therefore his comments did not apply to you, as a woman, but instead applied to men. It's not that there isn't a lot of biphobia among lesbian women, but I don't think Sam was writing about that.

Never mind that Mike Bailey lost his chair at Northwestern because of his unethical research practices when he was writing his trans-bashing book (practices which included sleeping with some of his transsexual subjects). Bailey's agenda is to find evidence to support his pre-existing belief that there is only straight and gay, and that there is no such thing as bi or trans (among men) .. bi men are gay men in denial, and MTF transfolk are either (1) gay men looking for a broader array of sexual partners or (2) men suffering from "autogynephilia". In short, Bailey is a quack, and his "studies" are pseudo-science at best, but nevertheless they tie into a very broad anti-bisexual bias among both gays and straights.

[dawnwolfe]

To Sam:

It sounds like you've had some bad experiences with some men who were bi or wanted to pretend to be so. That said, I felt it like a punch in the stomach when you said taking the "B" out of "LGBT" would make everyone better off.

I'm a bi woman who has had a fairly horrific experience with a supposedly bi woman - she was using me to re-kindle the interest of a man we both wanted, and the bitch won. So what? Does her action mean that all bi women are suspect? If so, that means I am, too.

Please try substituting the word, "gay" for the word, "bisexual" in your post. I'm sure you'd cry "Bigot!" if you read a post speaking about gay people the way you did about us bi folk. What's the difference?

[annaclaire]

So how about a female's perspective??? Well, one female who probably doesn't live a conventional lifestyle as it were.

I'm 38, bi, and married for 12 years to a VERY heterosexual stud puppy who's original attraction to me was the very fact that I WAS bisexual. His thoughts were something along the lines of, "Oh YEAH! Threeways!" Uh, no. Not so fast.

I never thought of myself as a "dyke" or a lipstick lesbian, but in college I fell in love with another woman, and we dated exclusively for a couple of yrs. She was a lesbian, but she know I wasn't. I looked at other guys, and we both looked at other girls, but I never cheated on her and never felt "deprived" because my bed was missing the occasional dick. It never crossed my mind. When we broke up it was because she moved to another part of the country for grad school and I went to work in my hometown. We just drifted apart.

Now I know I'm a girl and I guess girls are different, but as a bisexual, I can see myself loving just about anyone who strikes my fancy... sex organs aren't a factor. Really. I don't cheat and I don't feel like I'm denying something inside by being married to a man. If he died tomorrow, god forbid, I would be alone for a while, but I wouldn't automatically go in search of a woman just to balance out my life or a man to replace the one I'd lost... I'd go in search of love and companionship. Period. If it's girl, great. If it's a guy, great. So to paraphrase Woody Allen, I just have the luxury of having twice the number of people to choose from. That's all.

Now, as for my husband. He's a complete heterosexual. 100%. He does, however, admit that he sees some men as physically attractive and some as not so attractive, just not sexually attractive: "Brad Pitt, yes. Toby Keith, not so much." His words, not mine.

So although we are monogamous, we did decide that we wanted to do something wild for our 10th wedding anniversary. After much dicussion, HE decided that we would travel to Hawaii (our original honeymoon site) and would have a threesome with another woman if we could find one he liked who was willing. I'd had threesomes before, but he never had, so I agreed, but ONLY on one condition: we had to have a threesome at some other point afterwards with the man of my choice and he had no say in the matter. Oddly, he agreed, but I could tell he wasn't happy about it. I guess his desire to experience two women at the same time was so strong, that he was willing to "make a trade" just to get what he wanted.

Well, we didn't find anyone in Hawaii, so hen we returned I found an old bi female friend who was married to a straight guy and we had a chat. They are "swingers" in the classic sense, so they were open to our ideas: One time and one time only. The four of us ended up in a king-sized bed, drunk, and having a great time.

So here's the odd part that you folks might want to chew on. The guys are straight, but to get what they wanted from us, we demanded that they perform a 69 on each other for a certain number of minutes. Neither had ever done it before, but they ultimately agreed. I was truly gobsmacked to see my straight husband giving head to (and getting it from) another guy. Fade to black...

So afterwards, we talked about for a few days. Hubby admitted that getting a blow from another guy wasn't any different from getting it from me, and he admitted that he might be willing to let that part happen again. (A mouth is a mouth as they say). As for his performance, he was nonplussed. He said it wasn't as bad as he'd expected it to be. "Fleshy" was the word he used. Not a turn on, not a turn off. Just "fleshy". He's not anxious to do that part again, but he did admit that he wasn't horrified at the thought of it if he it meant he got something in return that he wanted (another woman in our bed).

So what do we make of this? I guess we all need to realize that flesh is just flesh. Sexual attraction is really all about the mind. I enjoy other women as much as I do men. My husband doesn't. But he's intelligent enough to recognize that physical stimulation is really about physical pleasure, not psychic attraction.

We're still monogamous... haven't played since our anniversary, but I think he'd be willing to join the swingers again if I'd consent. And I think he'd fool around with a guy in the right setting if the right payoff was guaranteed. But I still don't think of him as bisexual. He's just a man who's free of prejudice. Maybe that's why I married him.

[Steve T.]

Just to muddy the waters a bit, listen to Dan Savage's sex advice podcast, episode 69. [!] (cut-and-paste link below) He talks with a confused young man, college age, who thinks of himself as straight but is fascinated at the thought of sucking someone's dick.

Dan notes at one point that there are genuinely straight men who do like to cross over to other side now and then. Evidence: she-male prostitutes, who have had all the hormone therapy for gender reassignment except the final surgical step.

Think about it: who are their clients? Men who are truly turned on by the feminine form, the hair, the beautiful face, the smooth skin, big boobs and butt, all of it. But when it's showtime, they want a cock to suck.

Where do these guys fit? Are they bisexual? They'd probably deny it, and if bisexual means being more or less equally attracted to men - real ones - and women - real ones - then they're not. All I know is there are enough of them to keep these ladies in business in any sizable city.

http://podcasts.thestranger.com/savagelove/archives.php#a032415

[kipp]

A general discussion about the "sociology of all bisexuals" is hard not simply because of the usual "every person is an individual" argument but also because bisexuality is something without an obvious external confirmation - so there's no way to sort a genuine bisexual from a poser. It's difficult to lie (to others or yourself) about being black or deaf or handicapped. But it's pretty easy to do that about being bisexual because what exactly proves you're not? Alot of gay men who don't want to lead gay lives get married and then live as what I like to call "craigslist bisexuals." Alot of young straight guys, who were nonetheless attention whores and enjoyers of free blowjobs, did the same thing in college.

But there are, of course, genuine bisexuals who aren't trying to live a lie and, yes, they can have an easier time of it, if they have long term relationships with an opposite sex partner, because of pervasive heteronormativity. But sorting the lie-livers from the unambitious bisexuals from the would have been gay but just happened to have found a female soul-mate bisexuals is next to impossible.

So the slight annoyance we all feel for those that we see as having an easier time in life gets compounded with all our dislike of the liars and users who only claim bisexuality as a convenience. I think that's mainly where all the biphobia comes from.

[Brendan Ross]

The strange thing though, Pender, is that science can't really explain (yet) what goes on inside my head. To the extent that a scientific "study" doesn't reflect reality as it is perceived in my own head, I can't really accept it.

Believe me, life would be much easier for me if I were either gay or straight, and I have no desire to hide from my attraction to men. It would be easier if I didn't find both Natalie Portman and Matt Damon cute, but I do. If science can't explain that, then science simply isn't up to the task yet.

[avenged savant]

Btw, I have known quite a few people named "Brenden". Not once...not ONE time, did any of the Brendens turn out to not be gay.

I think you probably guarantee your son is going to be gay by naming him "Brenden." LOL

Oh, and all have been bottoms, too, which is good for me.

[avenged savant]

I'm sorry, but I do indeed have a prejudice against self-described "bisexual" men.

There are a lot of game-playing gay men out there. And, from my personal experiences, the "bisexual" men out there wrote the book on game-playing.

I refuse to play. I don't believe them when they say they are bisexual and I refuse to play their games. Thus, even when it's only a frienship situation, I walk away. I do not associate with, in any way, shape, or form, men who say they are bisexual.

As far as I am concerned, they can take the B out of LGBT and we'd all be better off.

[Sam]

My take on bisexuality is this:
It exists as a continuum between the straight area and the gay area. No problem.
I think too many men claim that status to avoid being labeled gay (or worse). They're afraid to take a stand and recognize their true sexuality. It's as simple as that! Bisexual is a label in itself that has received very little respect from every side. I have know men that have switched back and forth between the genders. They are just comfortable with that. It's their 'nature'.
I really think that the true numbers of bisexuals is smaller than even the gay side. Nature has a way of showing us by example:
most people are right-handed. A lesser number of people are left-handed. And YES, an even smaller group are truly ambidextrous.

[Sam]

My take on bisexuality is this:
It exists as a continuum between the straight area and the gay area. No problem.
I think too many men claim that status to avoid being labeled gay (or worse). They're afraid to take a stand and recognize their true sexuality. It's as simple as that! Bisexual is a label in itself that has received very little respect from every side. I have know men that have switched back and forth between the genders. They are just comfortable with that. It's their 'nature'.
I really think that the true numbers of bisexuals is smaller than even the gay side. Nature has a way of showing us by example:
most people are right-handed. A lesser number of people are left-handed. And YES, an even smaller group are truly ambidextrous.

[Sam]

My take on bisexuality is this:
It exists as a continuum between the straight area and the gay area. No problem.
I think too many men claim that status to avoid being labeled gay (or worse). They're afraid to take a stand and recognize their true sexuality. It's as simple as that! Bisexual is a label in itself that has received very little respect from every side. I have know men that have switched back and forth between the genders. They are just comfortable with that. It's their 'nature'.
I really think that the true numbers of bisexuals is smaller than even the gay side. Nature has a way of showing us by example:
most people are right-handed. A lesser number of people are left-handed. And YES, an even smaller group are truly ambidextrous.

[Pender]

Brendan --

That is certainly the story told by self-identified bisexual men. My point is that it is not born out by science. I know it is insulting to say that, essentially, I don't believe you -- and I'm honestly sorry about that; were this a face-to-face conversation, I would likely amiably agree with you to avoid the confrontation -- but on some level you have to wonder why science has never confirmed the existence of bisexuality in the way it has gayness and straightness.

[Brendan Ross]

So many stereotypes in this comment thread.

Are *some* bisexual men actually gay men in denial? Probably, yes. But this is no way means that there are not truly bisexual men. Using words like "most bisexual men are ...." is simply an ignorant way to approach a somewhat incendiary topic.

To be honest, the reality about being bisexual is that we are not really "at home" in either camp -- straight or gay. We can choose to don the clothes of either camp -- that is, to live predominantly in the straight world, or predominantly in the gay world, but neither world really accepts the reality of who we are, and once that reality starts peeking through the window, recriminations begin to fly. Women don't want a boyfriend who is checking out Matt Damon as much as she is when they are at the movies. Men don't want a boyfriend who has his head turned by that gorgeous female flight attendant.

It makes both straight *and* gay people uncomfortable for the same reasons that straight people are uncomfortable about gay people-- namely it reflects a sexuality that they do not have, and hence have no real way of understanding. Sexuality is so visceral, it is so wired into us, that as hard as we can try to understand others through intellect or empathy, we simply cannot "grok" a sexuality that differs from our visceral experience. And when you add in other factors (on the straight side, the history of religiously-inspired bigotry, and on the gay side the pressures of gay politics and culture), that fundemental barrier can harden into a wall fairly quickly.

Bisexual men are not like gay men. We are attracted to women, and we can, if we wish, have relationships with them that are reasonably successful (at least as much as straight men can). That's the way we work sexually. It shouldn't be a reason to suspect us, to think that we are in denial, or that we are a threat to gay men. Contrary to what many gay men seem to think, it isn't any "easier" being a bisexual man than it is being a gay man -- if anything, it's damned confusing growing up, and it is very alienating and disorienting not really "fitting" anywhere -- either in the straight mainstream or in the gay mainstream. Gay men seem to think that we can just blend into the straight world like chameleons or something, and turn off our attractions to men. News flash: it doesn't work like that! And while we are as capable as anyone else of being in committed monogamous relationships (contrary to the popular slander about us), you can rest assured that there are very, very few straight women who want a boyfriend/husband who is attracted to men, in any way, shape or form. Gay men could use a bit more empathy, and a bit more humility in realizing that their own experiences about their own gayness don't tell them much of anything at all about the interior experience of what it is to be bisexual.

[Christian Gartrip]

Chris27...

Geez, where to start. So you have one ex-boyfriend and one militant bi friend and a couple of "degrees" and with that you are going to pass judgement on an entire population of people. Nice. Do you apply the same standard to women? Jews? Atheists? Lefties? People over 6 ft tall? Probably not.

You also, as so many people tend to do, associate orientation exclusively with sex. As a "psychologist", I would think that you would understand that as gay men, we are that way because we find men sexually attractive AND because when we fall in love, we fall in love with men. Don't you think that it is at all conceivable for a bi man to recognize that he's cabable of falling in love with both genders but for whatever reason seems to meet and fall for men more often than women? And just because it's true for your friend doesn't mean it's true for everyone else.
Again, let me stress a previous point when I say that bisexuals are NOT denying something by staying in a monogomous relationship. It simply means that they are happy... not confused.

One more thing, a few yrs ago, in the course of about 18 months, I had my heart broken by not one, but TWO men who both happened to be DC lawyers. Do I get to condemn all lawyers now as totally incabable of love and monogamy and all of those other grown-up emotions? And while we're on the subject, since I find you to be narrow minded and a bit stupid, should I feel comfortable applying that thought to all psychologists... even though I only know a few?

[piny]

Chris, why would a bisexual person have any more difficulty restricting their attentions to one partner? I like blondes and brunettes--that doesn't mean that I'd cheat on my dark-haired partner if some towheaded coworker put the moves on me in the copy room. Bisexuality means that desire is broader in one respect, not that it's more insatiable or less amenable to committment. Monogamy means exchanging everyone out there for a single partner; for most people, that'll involve ignoring some attractive prospects.

[Pender]

As far as I am aware, there is no scientific evidence that bisexual men, defined as men who are sexually aroused by both men and women, actually exist. The New York Times reported on a study of self-reported bisexual men, and they all turned out to be either gay or straight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/health/05sex.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

This is probably insulting to self-identified bisexual dudes, and I'm sorry for that, but on some level we have to be willing not to take peoples' identification at face value. For example, Ted Haggard and Larry Craig are exactly as vehement that they are 100% straight as bisexual guys are that they neither straight nor gay, but probably very few people take them at their word.

Everyone has heard of the bi-now-gay-later phenomenon. Given the empirical data, it seems much more plausible that bisexuality in men is really a halfway house for coming out -- an excuse, as Sean puts it, "so people wouldn't think they were total fags" -- rather than a stable point somewhere between straight and gay.

As a gay guy, I do resent bisexuals, for exactly the same reasons that I resent closeted men. Both of their positions are, at least implicitly, that being gay is something so undesirable that it should be avoided even if it requires lying to yourself and everyone you know.

All of the above applies only to men. Women's sexuality is much more fluid than men's, and studies bear that out.

[Chris]

Me: gay, 27, just out of grad school.

In my experience, most self-described bisexual men are totally in denial about being gay. I, too, have fallen in love with one of them, and that experienced proved more damaging and traumatic than any experience with a gay guy.

I have one militant bi friend, however, who adamantly clings to his bisexual identity despite not having been with a woman in several years (also for as long as I've known him) AND admitting that "women just don't like me." I'm a psychologist, so I'm inclined to label that statement as his subconscious saying "I just don't like women." So despite exclusively dating and fucking men for several years, he still is, in his mind, "bi." Weird.

Either way, "authentic" bisexuals are left in a quandary should they enter a monogamous relationship. I don't see how an "authentic" bisexual could ever be happy married to one person, unless the partner was down with some serious threeway action or didn't mind her husband fucking men on the side. There are some women out there who get off watching their husband suck off another dude, but not many, and threeways usually destroy relationships over time.

[Christian Gartrip]

Sean... I understand that in the end you are not really doubting the existence of bisexuality, but your post does imply that on some level you're still not sure. But that really wasn't the central point of my post (sorry if it came off that way). My point is that every time one of my bisexual friends starts a relationship with a member of the opposite sex, our friends question the authenticity of the relationship and then assume that he's getting dick from someone else on the side. Yadayadayada...
There is a built in subtext to bisexuality in our culture that seems to imply that bisexuality is somehow synonymous with promiscuity and an inability to honor monogamy.
All orientations have a problem with promiscuity. Bill Clinton is a serial cheater and a heterosexual, but no one takes a leap and assumes that ALL heterosexual men are out committing adultery with their interns and whatnot. As a gay man, I've been involved with my boyfriend for 3 yrs, and no one thinks I'm out cheating on him with another guy. But my bi friend Nick, who is involved with a female and is considering marriage, is always looked at suspiciously by everyone whenever he heads out alone. People assume he's got a boy on the side. WHY? Why can't he be in a monogomous relationship too? Not all bi's are monogomous, but many are, and we shouldn't assume that they are "taking advantage" of their orientation by having it both ways all of the time.

Also, there is another disturbing theme in some of the posts that seems to imply that bi's somehow "deny" half of themselves when they are in a monogomous relationship. Not true. My boyfriend is white, so am I, but I find black men appealing and have dated a number of them over the years. Are we also to assume that I am "denying" my attraction to black men because I'm in love with a white man? No. We don't think that do we? So why do we think that about bisexuals?
Finally, I guess this whole concept of "discussing" bisexuals as if they are some sort of science experiment just demonstrates how far we as a society still have to go to reach a level of true acceptance for all people. The fact that gay people are often the ones who start the conversation only makes it all the more frustrating.

[Sean Bugg]

Christian--I'm pretty clear about the fact that I don't doubt the existence of bisexuals. To do so would like doubting the existence of, say, the platypus just because it confounds my preconceived notions of mammals and birds.

[Christian Gartrip]

Ok... so every few yrs I get into this with someone, and in the end, I end up feeling even more sorry for the true bisexuals of the world than I did previously.

To me, a bisexual is someone who can claim the ability of being able to form a romantic emotional attachment to either gender. Period. A bisexual is as likely to be in a relationship with a member of the same sex as with someone of the opposite.

The problem that arises is that of "authenticity." If a bi man is married to a female, he's seen as a "closet case" who probably cheats on his naive wife to get what he really wants (hard juicy cock). If a bi man is involved with another man, he's viewed as "in transition"... meaning he prefers to keep one foot on the other side of the fence in case he needs to make a quick escape back to the real world.

This logic presupposes two things: one, that bisexuals are incapable of monogamy (esp when paired with a member of the opposite sex); and two, that bisexuality doesn't really exist in any permanent way, it's transitional.

If we are going to discuss bisexuality as an authentic orientation, then we must learn to give these people the same respect we demand for ourselves. It's no wonder that so few bisexuals feel comfortable admitting it. In doing so, they open themselves up to all sorts of abuse and judgements.

I know a few bisexuals, and I've always found them to be pretty much like everybody else. Some are promiscuous, some aren't. Some fall in love with members of the same sex, some with the opposite. Some are happy, some are not. We just need to learn to deal with it and stop the whole "are they real or are they not" way of seeing bisexuality.

Why is any of this so hard to understand?

[abrxas]

I'm just going to copy the response I left at Shakesville because I think it's germane response to your post as well. I'd also recommend reading through the comments over there, at least the ones that came before mine as they're by and large really thoughtful. Anyway, here's mine:

"First, thanks for being so honest. I'm writing as a bi-guy who's married to a woman. Now, I'm white, but I was raised one of the lower economic strata and had an abusive background. I can't pretend to know what's it's like to be a woman or be gay and out. But I think I know what it's like to feel marginalized and outside the mainstream. (Sure, I can "pass", but I know who I am.)

"That said, I've never quite understood the anti-bi prejudice, until you brought up the point of privilege. From that point of view it makes more sense.

"But still...

"It seems to me the problem you're having is viewing human relationships and sexuality through either an exclusively or a primarily political prism. Viewed in this light, yeah, any time a woman falls for a man it's going to feel like a betrayal.

"But desire and lust and love don't really respect our boundaries, cultural, political or otherwise. I think one way around the problem is to just accept that people have to follow their hearts (or guts or crotch, as you prefer).

"My take is, if it's makes you happy, more power to you.

•••

"Now, the issue of organization is another thing entirely, and those lesbians that feel bis shouldn't be involved at least have a point. But it's a separate issue to my way of thinking."

—Abraxas

••••

Jo is spot on. Thanks, sister.

[Mark Kraft]

As someone who is bisexual and polyamorous, secretly living with both my partners, I guess I can say that it cuts both ways.

I'm open about it to my friends, on my weblog, etc. But can I be open about it to my work, or to my current landlord? All that would do is get me judged and gossipped about at work, and either evicted or given a rent increase.

And, of course, I've had to deal with the attitude that I should just "pick a side", as if it were really that easy. Because, when it comes down to it, I love certain people in my life too much... their actual orientation being somewhat secondary to me.

And you're right... most bisexuals will choose to be in a primary relationship with either a man or a woman. However, that does not mean that they aren't bisexual. That means, most likely, that they love the person they are with and are repressing one side of themselves. Some can live like that. Some can't. Some don't even know that there are options... but the thing is, are there *good* options? It's not always easy.

This kind of of "pick a side" attitude hurt the most when it came from my best friend, who is gay, because I have *ALWAYS* been there for them, and would've never told him, "just be straight." I would never have wanted to, because I love him too damn much.

I get to be a sexual minority that *CAN'T* come out as fully as I would like, until such time as people aren't as judgemental about such things. Oh lucky me!

[DJTennessee]

>>Is it just me?

No. Most gays I know resent lesbians, most lesbians I know resent gays, and they both resent bisexuals. When I tell gay men that I'm straight, they typically argue me down that "No you're not because look how you dress and talk". It's astonishing that people who plead for greater societal understanding are so unwilling to try understanding other poeople.

Good luck with your "change begins with everyone except me" movement.

[jo]

I think a lot of the issues with bisexuality stem from the role of exclusive relationships in the life course. As they get older, most people tend to find a single romantic partner, and, since humans are not earthworms, they have to be one sex or the other. Thus, bisexuals entering into such partnerships are often seen as "going back to" their "true nature" in the sexuality binary. As for the number of bisexuals who end up in relationships with members of the opposite sex, there are proportionally more straight than gay people, so it makes perfect sense that more bisexuals would end up with straight partners (assuming perfectly equal attraction to both sexes, which I know is a big jump). As a heterosexual woman in an exclusive relationship of 3 years with a bisexual man, I understand that it is hard for people of all sexualities to deal with the ambiguities that bisexuality brings to the fore. And I'm not saying that no one out there uses bisexuality as cover for something else. However, bisexuals are just people trying to find sexually and emotionally satisfying relationships in a society that declares the very core of their sexual identities to be, not just morally wrong, but rationally self-contradictory.

[C]

Hm, this is an interesting point, and something I think about a lot, because I'm bisexual.

I think that I DO reap benefits when I'm in a relationship with a guy, because people don't react with phobia to a straight relationship. So I actually ALWAYS make a point of coming out to the people around me, even if I'm not dating a woman at the time. (And this confuses a lot of people. But whatever, it's my way of being genuine.) Still, if I am dating a man, I don't experience the same kind of daily discrimination I face when I am dating a woman.

So, I think it's natural, and appropriate, to be pissed about it! I think it's natural and appropriate to be pissed when ANYONE isn't being discriminated against when you are. It's not fair and it hurts. So, get pissed!

But be careful about just assuming that all bisexuals are actually closeted or straight, simply because some (or even all) of the people YOU have known have been closeted. I am not just a mysterious, intellectual concept. I am a real person living a real life, really and truly dating both men and women. And I am not the ONLY TRULY BISEXUAL PERSON ALIVE. There are plenty of us.

I think it's more common for women to be ABLE to live an openly bisexual life. I think homophobia is tied in very intensely with gender roles in our culture, and so ... possibly, if a man feels attraction to both men and women, he is probably less likely to be open about it than a bisexual woman.

Which is why I think criticizing openly bisexual men, (whether they are truly bisexual or in some coming out process) is counterproductive and only encourages men to stay closeted. It's brave to be open and out, whether you're gay or bi. Yes, if you're bisexual, you DO reap some benefits when in a "straight" relationship, but that doesn't make a person closeted or chicken. And it also doesn't make bisexuals people who rub their palms together and go "mwa ha ha ha ha! I am reaping sooo many benefits!!" It's the reality of our fucked up, homophobic culture.

I think we would all benefit from talking about issues together, and finding ways not to blame individuals but the culture at large, until all people are treated fairly.

[BiAndLovingIt]

Yeah. Its just that you are a hypocrite.

[Scott]

My own experience echoes yours. I've long felt I would "get" bisexuality if I met bi guys who were in relationships with other guys and having sex with women on the side, instead of always the other way around.

Intellectually bisexuality makes sense, Kinsey scale and all that. In practice, it seems more live a closet tactic.